Fusion is the music of EGO

Well I think one has to admit that the discussions here have a weighting on Weckl on Vinnie. While they are amazing drummers who few critisize, its important not to forget others.

But there are frequently threads about drummers that most have not heard about. The selection of different musical styles is also vast, I really cant complain.

Modern fusion is the extension of the ego in music. at its best it is aesthtically interesting and entertaining when done by people who are masters of their craft, but far too often it is self-serving musical masterbation that is more about impressing an audience than any kind of musical, creative expression (this is true of lots of music today). I cannot think of anything more boring than Allan Holdsworthless noodling away while some drummer accents his runs with splash cymbals, "nines," huminas and brickas and all the trappings of egotistical drumming. Jazz is dead- i dont know where the innovation is anymore, but it aint fusion.

I do distinguish current fusion from its origins. And i consider those origins to have been exciting experiments in music and expression (lifetime, mahavishnu, miles' fusion and weather report). However, as "jazz" has failed to evolve in any creative meaningful way since the 70's, fusion has become nothing more than smooth jazz on steroids. Fusion is to Music what the WWF is to Sport.
Lets go somewhere you guys likely havent yet been yet.

Sam Rivers
Parlaiment/Funkadelic
CAN
Hasil Atkins
Guitar Wolf
the Monks
Han Benink
Lee Scratch Perry
Andre Williams
Death From Above 1979
Fela Kuti
Johnny Guitar Watson

that was a breif list of some people who may have never been mentioned on this board. Maybe we should change the name of this place to house of fusion, cause that seems to be the only thing that drummers listen to.

learn me somethin new . . . i dare ya!

love ya

Ah irony?..

I think he appreciates great playing. I also think that the emotion in the first post perhaps overrode optimum word choice.

It sounds like he?s anti-wanking. It just happens that there?s a lot of that in some idioms, especially those that require a bit of knowledge and ability to execute. There?s a period in any player?s life of gee, look what I can do, vs. check this out, isn?t it beautiful? I think that latter is a point of view held by an artist, while the former is intermediate to becoming either an artist, or a basement wonder (no vision, lots of chops).

There are a lot of releases in which shredding seems to overshadow musicality. I try to avoid them. I like to hear a well-written tune and high-level interaction, as well as great playing.

Sounds like he cannot improvise himself, so he convinced himself that it is bad to improvise. A common reaction to something you cannot do or not understand is to be against it.
And he listens to music that no one else has heard, reads books that no one else has read... He is the sensitive artist. His thoughts are so deep that no one else understands him, but that's OK because he is so much more intelligent than everyone around him.

[img]eek.gif[/img]

Hey, I hate wanking too. (Steve will confirm my hatred of all things wank or blushda [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

I just don't like anyone who comes on the board and trolls and honestly, he's been around the board for years and should know better.

How someone conveys their opinion reflects their comunication skills. Simple as that.

What I'm not a fan of is dropping a blanket statement and then not being around to respond. Kind of proves that one is not interested in discussion.

I've said several times that the only real "rule" here so far is to present your opinion in a constructive manner. Apparently too difficult for some.

And it's not about ganging up on anyone who dogs fusion or the heros on this forum. On the contrary, I dare say that as a result of my close study of my favorite players I'm more aware of their weaknesses than most. I'm the first to admit that this guy can't play the same thing for 2 or more bars, and that guy overplays...whatever.

How you say something is just as important as what your saying. If it's not done right, people won't even listen, this topic being a good example. I tend to agree with some of the things that Dr Funk said too.
I still ike it though [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Firstly, I don't think Dr Funkenstien is trolling.
This is a subject that constantly crops up in my musical life.
I love fusion music, but one of my closest musical allies hates it and he himself has used the term 'ego music'

But I have found through engaging in this argument i have clarified myself what are the good and bad attributes of fusion music.

I think music provides the answer to a large and differing number of aeshetic problems, eg 'something to dance to','something to cry to' etc etc.

I think there is a type of fusion which does display technical skill but i think that this is a useful tool as technical skill is a very valuable commodity to mankind (like sexual attractiveness which is the main commodity of a lot of recent pop music...)
Fusion music helps us to weigh 'skill' in general and help us to critique the attributes which go to
develop and maintain skill.

What I hate about fusion music is the way musicians denigrate their own musical personality to the platonic idea of skill.
Nowadays a lot of fusion music is scuppered I think by it's blandness because everyone is trying to sound the same.
Musicians get criticized because they 'haven't got good pocket' but this is a platonic concept.

Thirty years ago their seemed to be as many 'pockets' as there was drummers and this, I believe created highly individual music...nowadays most fusion players just want to sound like vinnie or weckl...

Merry Christmas to you all...

Me play drums.

I hate to break the news to you, but those fusion bands from the 70's were wanking pretty hard, too.

That's a double standard.

It would have been a lot simpler to say you don't like 'modern' fusion (whatever that means).

Music is art...and self-expression. People express themselves in different ways and people will have different opinions.

firstly i want to make absolutely clear that i think this forum and steves contribution to education are unmatched. i feel abit bad about the "house of fusion comment"- it was aimed at what i see as the narrowness and redundancy of the fusion threads. It was not a comment or judgement on any individual or their contributions.
now thats outta the way-
i appreciate the constructive comments on creativity and expression. I do make a BIG distinction between the early pioneering efforts that were experiemtnal and "modern" (not my word choice) fusion. I cannot lump Lifetime and Spyro Gyra in the same catagory. I LOVE Vinnie, but do not think that Karizma is very interesting and dont beleive that it innovates in any way. But it is top notch fusion. And seriously: whats with those AWFUL keyboard sounds that the fusion genere seems to embrace? Please use a real piano for crissakes.

As for the personal comments that came my way- whatever.

Josiah- gimme some more info on this point "In this respect one could easily argue that Karizma's 'Document' album is fundimentally no different then Miles Davis 'Kind of blue'."
i dont think i follow your point. By your argument all music is fusion, making our discussion impossible

PS- golldarn people . . . once a day on this board is about all i can take. i cant responds any faster!